Brown bear Rifle

[fta0303]

What's my life worth?To you?
25k?!
If a bear gets shot. Goes into the alders. I'm not sending you in. I'm going in. Your staying out. 2 reasons. 1st your safety is paramount to me and my outfitter.
2nd is I do not have to worry about you or the noise created. Meaning if you are not there and I hear a noise I know it's the bear. No second guessing. And I am going to put the finishing shots in it anyways. So I have a difficult time understanding shooting sooner after the initial shot/shots by the hunter vs. me shooting later in the above described scenario ?

Everything I've seen says AK Fish & Game are realists. They think the .30-06 is fine with proper bullets. They also think you need a guide if you don't live up there. The guide is performing his intended function when he shoots. I'd bet he observes you, your shooting capability, and your rifle handling skills and that that figures into how quickly he follows you up.

He's the pro, you're likely a first or second timer. What you are trying to do the first time, he's done tens or hundreds of times. He knows more than you do. His job is very much about protecting you from yourself.

Time comes, no one sane wants to trail up a wounded bear in thick cover. Everything should be done to avoid that situation. That includes your guide putting a bullet in your bear. All the stories about brave men following up "a wounded bear in the alders" are most likely stories about guys who had no other choice. The Air Force found that pilots trained in 3 simulated combat missions were sitting ducks in real combat, but that pilots trained in 10 simulated combat missions were more than competent. That's because there's a lot to know and learn about air combat. I imagine the same truth and the same statistics hold true in bear hunting.

 

[fta0303]

I'm not talking about 3000 fps. I'm talking about terrible penetration out of a 416 ruger. That speed bullet was used because that was all that was available. That doesn't mean it was good

On looking, I find diametrically opposed assessments of Woodleigh bullets. One PH contributor at Africa Hunting does not like them, having experienced blowup using them in larger bores. Those comments date to 2017. On the other side is Nathan Foster at Terminal Ballistics Studies, who thinks well of Woodleigh. The African PH has had the same experience you've had.

From Terminal Ballistics Studies, about Woodleigh bullet in 35 Whelen: "The round nose is also very tough in its own right and has never let me down with regards to penetration, even during torture tests, pushing these bullets well beyond their design parameters. Based on these factors, my personal preference is the round nose bullet… Both the 225 and 250 grain bullets can tackle large bodied game. The light bullet can be especially useful as a general purpose bullet and also for use on large game in rifles that do not boast great speeds with medium to heavy weight bullets. That said, the 250 grain bullet does offer superior performance, especially if it can be driven fast and the hunter stalks close… Woodleigh bullets are designed to produce reliable expansion down to impact velocities of 1800fps. That said, performance does tend to be more dramatic at impact velocities over 2200fps or in a very general manner of speaking, at ranges inside 150 yards. Below 2200fps, it is important to try to aim forwards and break bone. Woodleigh bullets really shine when used in this manner."

Foster's experience with other calibers was that you could push these Woodleigh bullets quite a ways beyond Woodleigh recommendations and still have good results. Foster's statements are based on field performance.

It sounds like you, the PH, and Nathan Foster are talking about two different bullets. QC problems ? Don;t know, would look for comment from Woodleigh...

Much comment on African Hunter about Woodleigh finds them to perform very well even at higher velocities (dating to 2018), but a few do report they're too soft.

 

[Marky_mark]

On looking, I find diametrically opposed assessments of Woodleigh bullets. One PH contributor at Africa Hunting does not like them, having experienced blowup using them in larger bores. Those comments date to 2017. On the other side is Nathan Foster at Terminal Ballistics Studies, who thinks well of Woodleigh. The African PH has had the same experience you've had.

From Terminal Ballistics Studies, about Woodleigh bullet in 35 Whelen: "The round nose is also very tough in its own right and has never let me down with regards to penetration, even during torture tests, pushing these bullets well beyond their design parameters. Based on these factors, my personal preference is the round nose bullet… Both the 225 and 250 grain bullets can tackle large bodied game. The light bullet can be especially useful as a general purpose bullet and also for use on large game in rifles that do not boast great speeds with medium to heavy weight bullets. That said, the 250 grain bullet does offer superior performance, especially if it can be driven fast and the hunter stalks close… Woodleigh bullets are designed to produce reliable expansion down to impact velocities of 1800fps. That said, performance does tend to be more dramatic at impact velocities over 2200fps or in a very general manner of speaking, at ranges inside 150 yards. Below 2200fps, it is important to try to aim forwards and break bone. Woodleigh bullets really shine when used in this manner."

Foster's experience with other calibers was that you could push these Woodleigh bullets quite a ways beyond Woodleigh recommendations and still have good results. Foster's statements are based on field performance.

It sounds like you, the PH, and Nathan Foster are talking about two different bullets. QC problems ? Don;t know, would look for comment from Woodleigh...

have you used them?
Your sure giving a lot of advice, solely based off of google searches?

 

[fta0303]

Everyone learns from someone else, including you, if you think about it. So, I can look for expert opinions, or I can listen to whoever comes along. I try to listen to experts. There's so much to learn in this world that you can't learn it all from hands-on experience. Be grateful that I provide sources that you can check, and that I bring something to the discussion that is worthwhile, from reading the experts. Right now, you wouldn't know that there are two sets of opinions on Woodleigh that don't agree, which likely says good product now having some QC issues. If you don't like it, then attend to my disclaimer and don't read it at all if you can only accept word of mouth.

 

[Marky_mark]

Everyone learns from someone else, including you, if you think about it. So, I can look for expert opinions, or I can listen to whoever comes along. I try to listen to experts. There's so much to learn in this world that you can't learn it all from hands-on experience. Be grateful that I provide sources that you can check, and that I bring something to the discussion that is worthwhile, from reading the experts. Right now, you wouldn't know that there are two sets of opinions on Woodleigh that don't agree, which likely says good product now having some QC issues. If you don't like it, then attend to my disclaimer and don't read it at all if you can only accept word of mouth.

I listen to people who have first hand knowledge
Weatherby award winners, world slam holders, super slam holders, and outfitters
Simple google searches don't hold much weight to me.
Too many people who write the articles your reading, are paid to say positive things about the product. And most of them just aren't that experienced. The hotcore and weld core bullets have their place in Africa. And that place is when you do not want your bullet to exit your target animal. So if your shooting into a herd of Cape buffalo. You don't want to kill what's behind the animal you're aiming at. That's not the case on a brown bear hunt. Maximum expansion as well as penetration are paramount. I shot 2 bison with my 416 with those bullets and the terminal performance was terrible. The other bison I killed was with a 378 wby and barnes ttsx. It died a lot faster, but I was more than happy with the complete pass through the bullet made. I should be on my way back from hunting brown bears in Alaska but unfortunately one of my employees wife was diagnosed with breast cancer so I had to postpone it. I was bringing a 338 ss with ttsx's. I've killed a grizzly with a 6.5 cal and a frames as well